Hello Atheists... Are You Thinking?
Atheists claim there is no God based on a rational, logical, thinking approach to the question. But if an atheist really was rational and thinking, they would realize that as soon as they claim to be an atheist they have proven that a god exists. That is the only logical, reasonable conclusion anyone can arrive at.
Although Christianity is logical and rational, I'm not saying that Christianity or the Bible is needed to arrive at this conclusion. The claim of atheism, standing on its own, is a claim that god exists -- and it is a statement that the person making the claim of atheism is not rational.
Why?
Because to claim atheism is to claim that you are omniscient... a claim that you know everything. A claim of having all knowledge. To know that God does not exist means that you have to know he does not exist anywhere beyond our solar system. An atheist must know every detail about everything in our galaxy in order to know God is nowhere in our galaxy. They need to know everything about the physical universe to know that God exists nowhere in the universe. They need to know everything about everything that exists outside of the universe to know God does not exist in a spiritual realm or fifth dimension or wherever. In order to know that God does not exist a atheist is claiming to know EVERYTHING. Who is the only one who can know everything? God. So an atheists' claim to be an atheist is a claim to be god themselves, and thus it is a claim that god exists. It's a claim that contradicts itself.
A rational person can be an agnostic. An agnostic is a person who claims to not know whether there is a god or not. That is a rational claim. So if you don't know whether there is a God or not, is it not worthwhile to find out more? Because if there is a God, and you are going to be judged by that God when you die, it is very important to learn about that and understand it now... because when you die it is too late.
Although Christianity is logical and rational, I'm not saying that Christianity or the Bible is needed to arrive at this conclusion. The claim of atheism, standing on its own, is a claim that god exists -- and it is a statement that the person making the claim of atheism is not rational.
Why?
Because to claim atheism is to claim that you are omniscient... a claim that you know everything. A claim of having all knowledge. To know that God does not exist means that you have to know he does not exist anywhere beyond our solar system. An atheist must know every detail about everything in our galaxy in order to know God is nowhere in our galaxy. They need to know everything about the physical universe to know that God exists nowhere in the universe. They need to know everything about everything that exists outside of the universe to know God does not exist in a spiritual realm or fifth dimension or wherever. In order to know that God does not exist a atheist is claiming to know EVERYTHING. Who is the only one who can know everything? God. So an atheists' claim to be an atheist is a claim to be god themselves, and thus it is a claim that god exists. It's a claim that contradicts itself.
A rational person can be an agnostic. An agnostic is a person who claims to not know whether there is a god or not. That is a rational claim. So if you don't know whether there is a God or not, is it not worthwhile to find out more? Because if there is a God, and you are going to be judged by that God when you die, it is very important to learn about that and understand it now... because when you die it is too late.
Labels: atheism, salvation, Who Are We
posted by BrickBalloon
Read This Post In Our: Christianity in America Blog Archive
38 Comments:
It appears you're adding onto the definition of atheism.
OED:
atheism
n noun disbelief in the existence of a god or gods.
As you can see here, it is not "a claim that you know everything," but acknowledging what you don't believe in.
You're confusing 'atheism' with its subgroup of 'strong atheism' (also known as positive atheism or gnostic atheism). A strong atheist is one who does make the claim that they know there is no god.
On the other hand, 'weak atheism' (aka negative or agnostic atheism) neither knows there is a god nor believe in one.
I suggest reading
http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Atheist_vs._Agnostic for some more info about belief vs knowledge.
Based on my experience, the VAST majority of atheists that I encounter are weak atheists (nothing like the one you describe in your post)
Thank you for your comment Sam. I appreciate your taking the time to write.
What you are doing is what I've seen many atheists do when cornered, try to play word games and use that to refocus the conversation on a peripheral subject that has nothing to do with the actual topic. Let's not do that. The common use of the word "atheist" is: "someone who denies the existence of god." I put this in quotes because it comes from the Princeton University Dictionary. If I ask anyone on the street, this will be the definition they will use and how they understand atheism.
Someone who does not know if there is a god, nor do they believe in a god, is called an agnostic.
You are correct, the definition of atheism does not say an atheist claims to know everything. But the only way anyone can make a claim that there is no god, and have a rational basis for that claim, is if they know everything. If you don't know everything, then you cannot rationally claim there is no god. Because god may exist outside the scope of your knowledge. You can only make the claim that within your knowledge there is nothing that indicates to you a god exists. That makes you an agnostic.
This makes anyone's claim to be an atheist an irrational claim. If you truly believe there is no possibly of god existing anywhere, the only way you know that is to know everything about everything in and outside of the universe. The only one who has that kind of knowledge is god. Thus to make the claim there is no god, you are thus making the statement that you have the characteristics of god... which is a claim that you are god.
Yes, I know there is no overt statement "I am god." Nor is anyone actually thinking that. But all this means is that atheists have not thought through what they are claiming in a rational, logical way.
By the way, this is exactly what the Bible says we'll do, and what Satan has offered mankind for 6,000 years... that man can become like god. We are lead to believe that we are responsible only to ourselves instead of being responsible to the God who created us.
Knowledge and belief are two different things. The terms atheist and agnostic are not mutually exclusive. Theism and atheism are about what a person believes; agnosticism and gnosticism are about what a person claims they do or can know.
One can be an gnostic theist or a gnostic atheist...or... an agnostic atheist or agnostic theist.
According to BrickBalloon, he/she cannot rationally claim that there are no unicorns or invisible, fire breathing dragons. I guess BrickBalloon believes in everything.
Anonymous: If you are making the claim that unicorns or invisible, fire breathing dragons exist, I ask for your evidence that they exist.
God has provided evidence that He exists. In the Bible He has given us a description of Himself, along with explaining where we came from, who we are, why we are in the situation we are in, and where we are heading. Is there a similar record claiming that unicorns or invisible, fire breathing dragons exist?
No.
God has shown Himself through His interactions with humanity and the physical world.
For example, God has provided evidence that He exists through His creation. Just as when we see a painting we know there must have been a painter that painted the painting, when we see creation we know there must be a creator.
God has interacted with the physical world, telling us what would happen before it happens. Can anyone do that with 100% accuracy as God has done? No.
God interacts with people, changing their lives... changing their hearts in a way that nothing and no one else can do.
Is there even a claim or any evidence of interaction with the physical world by unicorns or invisible, fire breathing dragons?
No.
So, unlike God, there is no reason to believe that unicorns or invisible, fire breathing dragons exist.
You may choose to ignore the evidence or to not believe the evidence or to not see the evidence. But it's still there for you to see when God chooses for you to do so. And that's okay. God does not force anyone to believe in Him.
God, by His nature of being all powerful, all-knowing, and the creator of everything, can exist anywhere or everywhere. This requires universal knowledge in order to know He does not exist. So a claim that there is no God is a claim of complete knowledge of everything in the universe.
Are you claiming that unicorns or invisible, fire breathing dragons exist somewhere in the universe that we can't examine? What is your basis for that claim? In any case, should that be the claim I am an agnostic on the existence of unicorns or invisible, fire breathing dragons somewhere in the entire universe. And I'm not concerned about it. They do not effect anything related to humanity. But God does.
Unlike unicorns or invisible, fire breathing dragons God created you in His image. Because of that you are accountable for your actions to God and will be judged on the day you die. Whether I believe in unicorns or invisible, fire breathing dragons is of no consequence. Whether you believe in God or not has eternal consequences making it a much more serious question that deserves serious consideration.
The bible is not accurate, after 25 years of Christinanity,
I was ready to die I had FAITH ?
Science and reason.
But I'm not an atheist.
Science and reason have led me to Deism.
Nothing in nature is left to chance
Everything comes from the Divine.
Never find fault in things
You do not really understand.
The enemy you wish to destroy
Often proves to be your truest friend.
Posted by Cindy at 9:39 PM
Truth Seeker TP
http://truthseekerjournal.com/1997archive/124_1/46_shoulders_paine.shtm
It can't get better than that. Thomas is the man of reason and universal thinking. I really admire him.
CHECK OUT GOOOH.COM cin3@me.com
Thank your for your comment MyYouthSolution.
Deism is an interesting conclusion. God made everything, set it in motion, but He's no longer involved. Yes, it is also true that if you believe in Deism you must reject the Bible, because God is very active throughout history, even to acting ever moment to hold the universe together. (Stated in both the Old and New Testaments.)
So who is God? How do you know anything about God? Can you know anything about God?
Yes, you can... but you will come right back to the God of the Bible. You cannot even argue against the Bible without using Biblical truths because the laws of logic and uniformity of nature, as well as morality, all come from God... a God who created everything just as He described for us in the Bible.
brickbaloon i really want to believe you...im swaying in your direction....i want to convert to Christianity it seems to lead a very promising life..but everywhere i turn im confronted with roundabout answers...could you please explain to me the best way you can, what causes you to belive in god. without ever mentioning the bible at all or anything written in the bible ive heard it all...i need something different to confirm my faith can you please help me ??
Hi...
Its our thinking that what we think, no one can force us to think there is God exist or not. God is our feeling. Atheist always confuse us. Thanks for sharing this.
Blogger has not been working well for us. We are in the process of moving this blog to Wordpress. I got a comment in email that looks like it should have been posted here... but it never showed up. So here it is:
HJ has left a new comment on your post "Hello Atheists... Are You Thinking?":
Hello BigMac 1227. Did you get an answer for your post yet? If not, might I recommend the 26 video series on Youtube called 'How to Convert an Athiest'. The series is by KilltheDevil. I am not an athiest (Christian) but I watched the videos anyway and they gave me a lot of information I had no idea about. The Historical and Archaelogical information towards the end of the series are the best if you want non-biblical proof. But you should watch the whole thing anyway. I hope I've helped.
God Bless!
The evidence that God exists is all around you. His creation is screaming that he exists. But just like standing in a hurricane, with 80 mph winds blowing in your face, you can deny air exists because you can't see it, so you may also deny God exists (or create an alternate god of your own) because you don't see Him -- although all of creation is thundering all around you that He does exist.
This is why the Bible says you have no excuse for not knowing God. When you stand before God on judgment day you can't say "I didn't know..." Look around you. Just like you can't have a painter without a painter, there can't be a creation without a creator.
Look into your conscience. God has written His laws inside you. You know that lying, stealing, murder, adultery are wrong. This isn't a guilt trip, it's just hard fact. A fact everyone tries to run from... but you can't hide from God. And there is no excuse. You cannot say, "I didn't read the Bible. I didn't know you existed." People living isolated in an Indonesian jungle can know God with having the Bible, because God's creation -- His natural laws, His moral laws, all of creation -- testify to His existence.
The problem is not that God can't be known. The problem is that sin, the willful disobeying of God's laws, keeps us separated from God. When we follow sin, we become blind to God. And nothing can lift that blindness except God.
So how do I know God exists? Because Jesus has stepped in and paid the penalty I owe for breaking God's laws. That has freed me from the effects of sin, it removes the blindness, and it is plainly obvious in literally millions of ways that God exists... just from looking at His creation. Reading His word in the Bible just makes it a lot easier to know Him.
How do you know God exists? Your argument is invalid because the reasons you have for shunning atheists are the same reasons that your argument is wrong. No one can know everything. You can't know that a God exists. Why do we need an afterlife? To comfort ourselves. We are such selfish creatures...only thinking about what awaits us in the afterlife. Stop wasting your time and try to change the world.
Also, you will never know what form god has, if there is one. Look all around you, yes, it IS beautiful. Worship that, not its made up creator
Thank you for your comments ArieL. You are correct, no one can know everything, but we can know somethings. For example, to know there is gold in China I'd just have to find one piece of gold in China. That's very easy to do. But to know there was no gold in China I'd have to inspect every location (including every tooth) in China before I could conclude there was no gold.
It is the same with God. To know God is real only takes experiencing or seeing one proof. To know there is no God (atheism) requires complete knowledge of everything in the universe -- because you would have had to look everywhere to conclude there is no God. Thus atheism is totally unreasonable and illogical.
You don't need an afterlife. It is just a description of reality. You are eternal. That's reality. What happens after you leave this physical life depends on what you do here. Since you've already broken God's laws (check your conscience, it'll tell you you've broken God's laws) you have to deal with the eternal consequences. That's reality. And hell isn't eternity partying with your friends. It is eternity alone, in darkness, in fire... where even God does not hear your cries.
i was agnostic till i began to understand good orderly direction
in science- eventually introduced to a a after years of therapy and
struggles-the solution was to retrust and understand becoming a servant with correct motivation
was my commitment
Thank you for your comment, anonymous. Trusting Jesus (who is God) is the answer. In my tracking of current science research it is becoming so obvious that evolution is not based in science and truth, that more and more papers are calling for evolution to be abandoned. As Romans says, that God exists is evident to all, when an atheist stands before God on judgment day they will be without an excuse.
Agnostics shouldn't just blindly follow god because there would be no reason if he doesn't exist but there is proof that god exists through the big bang and even evolution because god had to have made the beginning of the universe simply because something could not have been made from nothing as atheists claim happened. Also God has to exist because if not the laws of the universe probably wouldn't allow life or the big bang to happen. Ex: if gravity was just barely greater than it is then the big bang would have just imploded on itself and the universe wouldn't exist.
I just blew your mind and i am only fifteen. in your face creator of this site!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:b
Hey Cliff, thanks for the comment. You are right, everything within space-time had to have a beginning, so the universe, earth, and life all had to have a beginning. Also, something cannot come from nothing. That's impossible. So the only answer is that everything came from outside of space-time, and that's God. The one, the only... the one who made us... the creator who spoke everything into existence.
Hey Cliff, what's up? You are sounding a little egocentric and as though you are losing your grip on reality in your second comment. Are you okay?
You're a fucking idiot, but thanks for playing (with something besides yourself). There is zero evidence that god exists, but please, by all means, continue to waste your time dishing out your "wisdom" when most atheists have forgotten more about the bible, science and history than you'll ever know.
John Dernk: thank you for your comment. You've provided an excellent example of an atheist's response to truth. Thank you for well reasoned and rational response.
I just have one question. I am an agnostic and I believe in a higher power and in the eternal existence of the soul. I believe that all the major world religions have divine knowledge such as Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism, and Islam. What would christians have these other non christian religions do? Does someone have to be a christian to accept jesus? Would a devout Muslim have to give up his or her practice of following the five pillars of Islam to be saved? Would a devout Buddhist have to give up following the noble eightfold path to be saved? Should the whole world be only christian? If so, how does this allow for the religious identity of other cultures? What about the native American, does that cultures spirituality have to become obsolete to make way for the white christian? I am a white christian but I care about preserving the religious identity of other cultures and would teach them about Jesus, but I wouldn't necessarily throw their entire religion and culture under the bus.
Dear anonymous, thank you for your comment:
You are making the assumption that there is more than one god. Only if there are multiple gods can there be multiple religions. In fact, if you allow Hinduism as true, then you must accept the existence of over 360 million gods. My point is that every religion is mutually exclusive. They all deny all other religions. There is one God, so only the followers of that one God have truth.
You have your word usage mixed up. The term "Christian" in its pure form identifies someone as a person who has repented from disobeying the God of the Bible, and is trusting in Jesus Christ alone as having fully paid the penalty they have earned for breaking God's laws. It's not that only Christians can accept Jesus, the true statement is that when you have repented and trusted Jesus Christ you are a Christian.
Please note most people who call themselves Christian are not truly Christian. Anyone can apply the label "Christian" to themselves. Also, people do not need to call themselves a Christian in order to actually be a Christian. The term "Christian" is only a label that has no meaning in itself.
Anytime a Muslim, Buddhist, or someone practicing any other religion becomes a Christian, their first desire is to turn away from the religion they had and toward God. So a Muslim will give up the five pillars and the former Buddhist will give up the eight fold path. Their desire will be for God, not religion.
Also God is superior to culture. Culture comes from God, not the other way around. Our culture should not define our god, because then god is a creation of humanity. And that is no god at all. It is also interesting to note that although other religions are defined by their associated culture, you'll find Christianity embraces cultural diversity (I speak from being involve with churches around the world).
Since there is one God, the creator of everything including you, everyone in the world should follow and obey that one God. It is not a question of religion (and I include atheism and agnosticsism in my definition of religions). The question is, what is true? Which religion has the true God (or no God)? Either one of them is right, or all are wrong.
Also note, you comment about "white Christian" is WAY off based. By "white" I assume you mean European. Christianity is by far a majority non-white non-European/non-American) group of people. Christianity came out of the Middle East and has been spreading westward around the world. There are far more Chinese Christians than there are "white" Christians. True Christianity is flourishing more in Africa than in America.
Finally you say you are a white Christian, but introduce yourself as a agnostic. In that case you are not a Christian, if we stick by the pure definition of a Christian. It appears to me as though you are mixing culture and religion in how you define yourself. Christianity does not allow that... which is why it can embrace all cultures.
visit www.911Christ.com
you are with out a doubt one of the most idiotic people to mange to use the internet
your ramblings if they can be confused with English are stuffed with more half truths, misdirection and down right lies then the entire GOP manifest and rush limbas daily verbal masturbation session.
A atheist extrapolates from reality the conclusion that there is no god. he does not superpose that he knows every thing he makes a judgement based of the data present to him. never in all of human history or that of the universe all 13.82 billion years of it have we ever had all the data so we always we have to extrapolate.
i have include some links to help you
http://godisimaginary.com/
https://whynogod.wordpress.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvutrLLKvVU
http://www.inner180.com/2014/01/13/what-to-do-when-your-head-is-up-your-ass/
Thank you fr your comment anonymous...
So you are claiming to be able to prove a negative? But, then you say you'll never have all the data you need, seemingly agreeing that a negative cannot be proved. But, then you add a provision that, using extrapolation a negative can be proved.
Setting aside the logical fallacy in what you've said, does not extrapolation require that you have a significant portion of the data? How much knowledge do you have compared even with just what has been published in the Journal of Science? What about compared with what has been published in all English language scientific journals? Or all scientific journals of any language? Or of everything that has been published? And this is just talking about what humanity thinks it knows. What about all the knowledge we don't have... the things we don't yet know? What about the knowledge that could be gained by observing from a point outside our solar system, and outside our galaxy, and outside our local group, or even outside of time/space? How much knowledge do you actually have? Isn't it rather arrogant to think you have such a large percentage of all possible knowledge that you can determine whether or not God exists, when you don't even have the tiniest fraction of the knowledge that is available in a small library?
Another question... how hard have you looked for God? God has made His existence obvious to those who honestly look. How much effort have you put into unbiased research about God? Or do you just read things that support the view you desire to have? And only read the books and web sites that support your desires? If you actually look with a desire to "find" God, He is there. He's not hiding. But, God does not force you to believe in Him. He has given you free will, and He will not interfere with your free will. So if you desire is to reject Him so that you can behave and act as you choose, God allows you to follow your free will. Of course, there are consequences for your bad decisions. But again, the consequences are the result of your own decisions, so you won't be able to complain nor even say "I didn't know."
this person is part of the KKK most probs
i didn't use a logical fallacy you did
this is the fallacy you claimed i used
X is true because there is no proof that X is false.
Or
You do not know what X is. Therefore we do.
If the only evidence for something's existence is a lack of evidence for it not existing, then the default position is one of mild skepticism and not credulity. This type of negative proof is common in proofs of God's existence or in pseudosciences where it is used as an attempt to shift the burden of proof onto the skeptic rather than the proponent of the idea. The burden of proof is on the individual proposing existence, not the one questioning existence.
[edit]Retort
A common retort to a negative proof is to reference the existence of the Invisible Pink Unicorn or the Flying Spaghetti Monster as just as valid as the proposed entity of the debate. This is similar to reductio ad absurdum, that taking negative proof as legitimate means that one can prove practically anything, regardless of how absurd.
[edit]When proof is presented
One important element to remember in regards to negative proof is that once positive evidence has been presented the burden shifts to the skeptic to refute the evidence presented. One cannot keep arguing from the position of "negative proof" after the presentation of evidence. This point, however, is completely lost on most creationists (such as intelligent design advocates) who shout from the rooftops that there are no transitional fossils long after they've been repeatedly shown them. Confirmation bias, anyone?
[edit]What the fallacy isn't
A common saying in pseudologic is "You can't prove a negative." That saying is not true. An absence of something can be proved in various ways, e.g., by a reductio ad absurdum or by proving something else that is inconsistent with the presence of that something (a very useful approach known in mathematics as proof by contradiction[wp]). For example, in law, a party may have the burden of proving nonreceipt of certain correspondence and may bear that burden of proof (at least by a preponderance of the evidence) by introducing into evidence a docket record in which the correspondence would have been noted. In mathematics, there are plenty of proofs of negative propositions, such as "there is no largest prime number"[1] or "there is no rational square root of 2".[2] One might also note that the saying itself is a negative.
once again you try to mislead people with half truths and lies
source wiki http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Negative_proof
extrapolation is the process of estimating, beyond the original observation range, the value of a variable on the basis of its relationship with another variable. -wiki
so i don't need to know almost every thing if i can see in result after result that god
doesn't exist and that key points of the bible are false then i can assume he that
A) the bible is false
B) god isn't real
and why would i desire to reject god? being an atheist means i have to ask my self more troubling questions on morality instead of blindly following a prescribed chore list. i know that when i die i will cease to exist, that all of me will end, there will not be darkness, there will not be light, there will not be anything. when i was young i went to church and clapped with the crowds sang with the masses but as i grew older and wiser the answers i was give no longer matched what science showed me
The thing is that God created the universe with a single word. "Be" It is evident in all three books. If someone can believe something so stupid why can't they believe that atheists are wrong.
God is real and I can prove because he has given me the mind to track your response so I can find out about your name and where you live. We should thank God for the mind that he gave us and people like you don't. God revealed your name may be Aurash who lives in the pitifull state of Massachusetts.
because i disagree with you, you would release my personal information this borders the line of harassment, im not impressed that you can use a domain scraper. continued release of my information i would find unwanted and annoying a action of personal malice with the attempt to scare me into submission to your personal view. I see no act of god in what you did Merely the act of a bully
To go that far and release someones personal information is a horrendous thing to do. God does many evil things besides giving you the mind to use a domain scraper. Your ideology then further states that God is basically responsible for everything even my response and other peoples responses to your agnostic statements. So in simpler terms you are arguing with God.
i also find it interesting that you insult Massachusetts when you come from Oregon
Oregon ranked No. 40 among states for academic achievement
six rural Oregon school districts are among the 300 worst in the nation
ACT scores for the class of 2014 showed that most Oregon high school graduates aren't skilled enough at reading, writing, science and math to pass freshman college classes.
worst chronic absenteeism problems, contributing to the mediocre levels of reading and math achievement.
Maybe when I visit Andover High School we can talk more about the subject.
Hey anonymous. I hope you enjoy talking to yourself. Spoofing my name is an old trick that gets you nowhere except a reputation as a liar. -- BrickBalloon
Hey anonymous... sorry for the short message and the delay in getting back to you. It's been a busy day.
Do do understand you have demonstrated how indefensible evolution is? When your only defense is a child-like game using a fake identity and "dirty words," it demonstrates the total lack of factual evidence supporting evolution. You're not the only one, it always ends up this way. But, it doesn't have to.
From what you wrote I can tell you are limited in your science knowledge. I suggest taking an honest look at the facts. In other words don't just look for the answers you want to find, study all aspects of the issue. Seek truth, and you will not only find the truth about the emptiness of evolution, you'll find the truth about God. He is there. Waiting for you. Loving you. Caring about you.
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